pungoose ([info]pungoose) wrote,
@ 2006-11-25 11:55:00
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Current mood: puzzled

"steady-state economy"
I am deeply alarmed by green campaigners' tendency to lurch from seemingly making sense to talking (what seems to me to be) absolute drivel. Example:

In New Scientist (25th November '06), Thomas Homer-Dixon is interviewed, and says:

it's increasingly clear that [an endlessly growing economy] is incompatible with the long-term viability of Earth's environment. We need to know what a "steady state" economy - one with a roughly constant output of goods and services - might look like.

You can imagine economic output, and how it's produced, staying at the current level, instead of growing. This would make lots of people poorer, but it wouldn't reduce CO2 emissions, protect fisheries, or anything else.

Conversely, you may be able to imagine a massive shift towards more sustainable means of production (the usual suspects: integrated pest control, renewable energy, emissions trading schemes, polluter-pays, recycling...) which would reduce ecological footprint without a massive (?) cost in foregone GDP.

steadystate.org claim this:

In a steady state economy, society focuses on goals more noble than economic growth.

... like, preventing economic growth? Is that a worthwhile goal?

(That's not to say that growth in GDP is necessarily the best thing for human welfare... there's a lot which GDP doesn't count. But it's far easier to campaign for that sort of thing when you haven't set yourself up on a soapbox fetishising constant GDP, rather than increasing GDP).

My current opinion: Trying to reduce ecological footprint by flattening GDP is akin to trying to reduce the spread of HIV by reducing the number of orgasms experienced.




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[info]ewtikins
2006-11-25 12:21 pm UTC (link)
In theory there should be some sort of maximum efficiency of the economy that could be reached, at which point further growth would be impossible (or require vast extra-terrestrial input in terms of materials and so on).

I don't think we're anywhere near that level of efficiency, and would encourage economic growth where it is not harmful... particularly as we are reaching the point where there is more to be gained through increasing efficiency than through a basic expand-and-plunder model.

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"steady-state economy"
(Anonymous)
2006-11-27 05:11 am UTC (link)
You can imagine economic output, and how it's produced, staying at the current level, instead of growing. This would make lots of people poorer

How would it make people poorer? Seems to me it would leave people at their current wealth levels.

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Re: "steady-state economy"
[info]pungoose
2006-11-27 08:55 am UTC (link)
How would it make people poorer? Seems to me it would leave people at their current wealth levels

I expressed myself unclearly. I intended to say, zero-growth would make lots of people poorer than continued, "normal" growth would.

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Re: "steady-state economy"
(Anonymous)
2006-11-27 05:17 pm UTC (link)
Okay, yes, it would prevent the building of wealth for some.

This is a topic I've been researching some, and while I'm not yet thoroughly familiar with the arguments of Daly and others, I suspect most of the sacrifice would be on the p[art of large corporations which would be prevented from making further billions or hundreds of millions. I doubt it would mean major sacrifices for small businesses.

It seems clear to me, as I look at what scientists are telling us of our current ecological state, that we are facing profound problems. Here's a summary I posted on a blog I used to maintain:

http://www.smalltownproject.org/2006/04/06/will-we-avert-ecological-collapse/

If one accepts that ongoing economic growth (read large corporate growth, e.g., Exxon...) is a major driving force behind this environmental plight, then it seems clear we need to rethink how we approach growth. Pursuing it endlessly is obviously unsustainable, and its pursuit has already, it appears, caused us to overshoot the earth's carrying capacity, leading to looming "ecological collapse."

No economic growth, as we know it, will be possible at all without a viable ecosystem. A steady state economy might be one way of preventing this scenario. But I'd be open to other ideas. At this point I see no way around the simple observation that growth is unsustainable.

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